About hearing the language of people, I think, sometimes there is no need to hear them. We can feel their presence. I don't know many people. Most of the time I am at home and the members of my family don't talk to each other very much. We know how every body feels.about the students at class, we just come to different classes and go. In that short time I haven't paid attention to them like that to understand what language they speak to.
There are a lot differences in translating the grammar of verbs.Molana has used many continues forms but in English form, we don't see them lot. the effect of (ing) forms in Molana`s is much more. I think Molana has used(ing) forms not only because of the sound but also because of life flowing. Most of them can be seen in 15 linesبيت.I can see even in my words that how I am living, in the present or past, by choosing my words in (ing) forms or others.
The greengrocer does sth when he is angry and after that he becomes sorry; but just because of one minute no excuse is accepted. We can see this kind of times a lot in our lives. And the parrot uses the language of silence to show his sadness. I like the way he has chosen very much. Even though you are silent, you show and say all the things you want to say. It is a good way; test it.Just 15 lines of the poet are about greengrocer and parrot. Till the end it shows that if you say 1word there can be thousands of words related to your word. I think that is the reason we should first think about our words then start to talk. Other lines are all about the differences between good and bad. I like line 49. زشتي آن نام بد از حرف نيست تلخي آن آب بحر از ظرف نيست
we should find the sweetness and the bitterness of the words in ourselves. again and always we should know ourselves. maybe lots of words aren't true, but we shouldn't consider. we can hear nothing or think they are good. I know myself it is very very hard!

THE Grocer & THE Parrot

Mrs Ghahremani said us to find differences between Molavi and Nicholson in using different kinds of tense of verbs and compare it with the sound of my heart about it,and i am sure that using special tenses by molavi & nicholson is very( هوشمندانه).Sometimes molavi uses present tense for the facts but also he uses the past tense for that in order to show us that those facts begun from the begining of the world and so they still are alive in front of us to use them and learn them s.th.
And about comparison everyone has his own ideas ,experiences and previous memories and of course his judgement is influenced by those elements.You can compare something with s.th only when you know the inside something very well .The circumstances ,time, place are never similiar in two cases so you should be aware of the reality of s.th then compare .
And as you know we human beings do not even know ourselves so how can we be sure about our judgements?Only you can talk about something clearly when you know the reality of that .
And i believe there is no 100% good thing or 100% bad thing in this world because we ourselves make those things bad or good and nobody knows the reality of things except GOD.
Through the story there are some imperative verbs that molavi says that and i think he tries to show me the way.

By reading this poem from Molana we care more about our world .Although the spicies might recieve from the same source or have the same rout, still there are lots of differences. We should not compare every thing by seeing the first things.

language of Molana in the parrot & the greengrocer

Touchstone, assay, judgement
What you get from these words is comparison and this is what Molana wants us to get.
But he offers not to compare with the judgemant of ours, but with HIS.
He wants us to compare , but fairly.
He wants us to see, but clearly.
He wants us to judge, but with the standard of God not ourselves. And I say that God himself is the MAIN STANDARD…
He offers not to just see the appearance, but to dig into inside.
Laleh says our world is like a piano, black & white, but I say sometimes our life and what we have to see is gray, both black & white and we have to tell these two apart. Who is really the white and who the black.
Molana says be careful !!! Sometimes the black one appears as white……
But I say, hey you amigo, be careful!!! Sometimes the white is
apparantly black but he is NOT…..
He says the origin of both is the same but one has decided to be black & one to be white, exactly like two children in a family with very nice and white parents. But you see what happens...!!! One of them chooses to be white & the other black, so what shall the poor parents do... what,s their fault....

Molana talks about all of these with a sweet language. His language is powerful. It is also moving. It is not stagnant.
I say simple tenses imply stability & continuous ones imply movement but it is very interesting when I see his language moving while using both simple & continuous...
He takes the reader to the depth of his speech & affects him as the reader himself is the character in the story.
The translator has tried to have the powerness of Molana by using continiuous forms & I say that he has tried his best to do so. I don’t want to say he was not successful, its not fair, but he can not have the influence of Molana..
He even has used present tense while Molana has used past tense and it is where he talks about different species of things and compares them…
With all these differences my idea is that this translation is a good & powerful one and I enjoyed it a lot, however I hadn’t read the poetry before…
Molana,s language is the language of human, I mean the language of a real human with the holy FETRAT and maybe this is the reason we like his speech…
His talks come from his spirit and this language of spirit is the one all of us know since we were created but maybe we have forgot it…
Hey amigo, this is our language, lets talk and live with the language of ours not with another one which doesn’t belong to us, we have many things, many valuable thing inside of us, lets bring them out because they are very similar to the MAIN STANDARD….

The parrot and the greengrocer

Each part of nature and even whole the nature has its “rhyme” and rhythm. Even the silence you hear from the nature has its own affect that human can feel it and absorb it with whole sole.

The rhyme of nature has shown itself in the rhyme of poetry, so choosing the similar rhyme at the end of each line in Molana poet is more compatible with “spirit” and reduces and soften the sententious voice of prosaic English form.

The images making by reading Molana poet are not present in English translation. They are obvious words and phrases in English prose but they are hidden under the images and rhymes of Molana poet.

In my opinion, there is no comparison –as we are supposed- in the poetry. Comparison –as we do- is mostly for appearances and the qualities, and in this manner is makes bad feeling and demeans someone.

But when you are comparing the inside believes and talk about real reasons of behaviors, it makes good feeling for those behaviors which gets you upper and give you good sense about those qualities.

It makes those qualities important and makes you think about them and show you an upper position which human can reach and lighten humanity, but when there is comparison in quantities, it always demean someone and push them toward down not bringing them up.

In Molana the comparisons is for showing though all human are from same source but their act and mind changes their path and makes their direction.

I considered some points from this story(the greengrocer and the parrot) :

1- Men can be friends and help eachother without having to change themselves.they can be friends although they have several unequalities.

2-God should play the role of touchstone for us.he can differ between qualities of things like a touchstone that realize gold from other metals.in other words what God has asked us to do is the best factor.(line 280)

3-Putting a wrong label on somebody is betray.(line 91)

4-Words are like shell.the important thing about a word is it's origin(whether it is from God or not)that gives it atmosphere and meaning.(line 295)

parrot and the greengrocer

greengrocer & the parrot

in this text the interpreter has tried to transfer Rumi's tone and sense of writing perfectly.

in the very first lines the interpreterhas used past tense (was,came,etc.) to take the reader to the space that Molana wanted to produce.

would have been broken in the seventh paragraph represent great continious regret green grocer was feeling andit make the reader feel it too.the (would begin to speak )made me feel longing,desire and sorrow so strongly.

on the part that dervish begin to give examples to the parrot the translator uses past form of the verblike drank,ate;etc.but it made more sense if it would be in present(from my point of view) i think by using past form the power of Molana's speech is somehow lost.

when the poet invite us to think about same sources and different outcomes, the tense of the speech changes into present and i think this makes the reader feel the flow of these facts in his daily life.

by using the imperative verb *consider* he made all the readers feel this stream of truth in allaspects of nature and human life also .the tone is so strong that few people can refuse to obey.this command is inviting enough to follow.

Molana in his remarks especially the part about the believer,victory and defeat uses a very strong tone as if he has no doubt in what he believes and he transfers this belief and certainity to the reader too. what interpreter did in this part is remarkable because he could transfer this tone and sense completely.

considering words and sentences in the last three paragraph the words will (will never) and shall(future tense) make me feel some confinemts and impossibilities. i feel this never has more negative power than other nevers.

at the end i want to say that i like this text very much because it is very much our lives and it showed me the measures and borders and barriers i have in my life and it drew my attention to the imortant things in life that i passed them by without an accurate look before.

طوطی و بقال

I've written some points in languages as far as I've perceived acording to the number of lines
but not about the purpose of the text although it was too impressive and bring so many questions to the mind.In general Molana's language is so gentle and intersting that solve you in it.
بود بقالی و وی را طوطیی
1-Nicolson wrote'' had '' but Molana has given the sound of continious to his tense with adding a ی to the parrot
در خطاب آدمی ناطق بدی در نوای طوطیان حاذق بدی
3-Nicolson is successfull in having a past image in present like
Molana.
از سوی خانه بیامد خواجه اش بر دکان بنشست فارغ خواجه وش
5-Nicolson has used seated instead of sit to show the atmospher of respect in poetry.

8-Molana has said می and Nicolson showed it with ing
دست من بشکسته بودی ان زمان چون زدم من بر ان خوش زبان
9-Molana has used بودی to show continius plus past perfect but Nicolson has said it in passive to bring the same feeling
10-می and ing in both sentences have the same feeling
11-we have'' بنشسته بودی ''and ''was seated'' which does'nt show the sense and tru meaning
می نمود ان مرغ راهر گون شگفت تا که باشد کاندر اید او به گفت
12-in the first part می and ing match eachother but in second part کاندر آید به گفت and ''to speak''dont and it dos'nt show the process of action.
13-we have می گذشت and passed which dosnt cope although he has used meanwhile to have the meaning in it but sound is diffrent
14-اندر گفت آمد has changed to'' began to talk'' which has a different sound
15-we have آمیختی and Nicolson has showed it in passive'' were mixed''
16-خنده آمد is more beautiful than just ''laughed''

18-Nicolson has seen شد a fact and has used ''is'' instead
هر دو نی خوردند از یک ابخور این یکی خالی و ان بر از شکر
24-molavi's prefered not to use verb to have the permanent meaning and Nicolson has followed him
25-no deffrence in tense but Nicolson has seen different meaning in tow similar ''بین''
Simin Davoodi Malek

In my idea,comparison basically is not good act because actually first comparison has done by evil .he was the one who compared himself with Adams.God has created us by different capacities which are unique.so comparison is not easy act because we are not in a position to compare people. the other thing is that alyhough some people are physically similar to each other .this does not mean the same functional capacities because our behavior arise of our inner capacities that are influenced by purificaton,refining,nurture and training.
so I think comparison can be done by a person who is aware of potential and actual capacities.
In my opinion Molana is one of those people who could reach to this مقام عرفانی by the use of purification,refining,nurture and training.
Nicholson has used simple in some parts of story to show that this event is alive and can happen to all of us all the times.(this is exactly تکرار تاریخ which was said by philosiphers).
The way of writing, speaking is very important because we have two kinds of translation
معنی گرایانه و تحت اللفظی and each of them has special fans. the تحت اللفظی group believes in keeping the meaning same as original text (word by word)
but the second group believes in transferring concepts (مفاهیم برداشت شده )without considering the words.So Nicholson used the best way for transferring the information by the use of these methods).

The Greengrocer And The Parrot

Starting the story by using an allegory such as parrot has given life to it and transfers this life to the reader as I myself feel that I'm living in the middle of the story and watching the greengrocer and the parrot nearly. Indeed, the first part of the story has pulled me inside it. At the beginning I understood that Molana has mentioned some qualities of human indirectly:

1.Being mad at something that has frustrated him(human) such as parrot's carelessness in breaking the bottle.
2.Being sorry about his hasty madness and reaction.
3.Trying to compensate his mistakes by for example distributing gifts.

I sometimes have these features, too. So this part has reminded me what negative features that I should correct are inside of me. Thank you Molana for this!
Then Molana puts the parrot the allegory of simple-minded people who compare the holy people's actions to theirs because they think both groups are human so all the actions and reasons are similar to each other. But Molana makes it clear by telling the differences exist ( are real) in the nature.

كافران اندر مري بوزينه طبع ، آفتي آمد درون سينه طبع

هرچه مردم مي كنند بوزينه هم ، آن كند كز مرد بيند دم به دم

This part may seem ridiculous but believe that it's true. We ourselves use this expression:
Imitation is the monkey's action and monkey is a kind of animal!
So the infidels are like animals (monkey, ape, parrot) because they think their actions are as correct and good as holy people! As parrot thought the bald-headed man was like itself.

Chess = Life White # Black Good # Bad => White = Good Black = Bad
Do you believe the above chart? Most of us think that this relation is correct, but I say it's not. Why? Because black itself isn't bad ( I mean it's essence isn't bad) it can become good and win or become bad and lose, so here we can say Victory # Defeat. Can you say black-skinned people are bad and white-skinned people are good? Of course no. Because both groups are from one spirit.

نام او محبوب از ذات وي است ، نام اين مبغوض از آفات وي است

I perceived this part like this:
The good name of mumin refers to his fair essence (I call it فطرت خداجو) means his existence is from God so all the bad things are rejected from him. But the bad name of infidel refers to his bad actions that has darkened his fair essence. Both groups go back to their origin (God) and will be called to account because God has given human the power of thought and option to choose his way (to become like animal or to become ...)

This story was a flick for me where I am really. Of course I don't want to be like parrot and I don't say I'm empty of its bad features, but I like to try the experience of becoming (...) and come out of the framework of (is) by rejecting the piece of rubbish which has made me forget my place!

The Story of Our wOrld & the Greengrocer & the Parrot:

The story of the greengrocer and the parrot with all its oppositions and comparisons,
IS ( the wor[L]d of Reality ) just like our wOrld with all its oppositions. I mean we can see the wOrld's oppositions in these Molana's words. But what are the comparison`s usages? In my opinion, sometimes COMPARISON can be useful. But when?
When two things that we are comparing, are from one type. For example Molana says that:
" Both reeds drank from the same water-source, (but) this one is empty and that one (full of) sugar." Then this kind of comparison will have positive results.
Comparison is an natural blessing and is born with every person.
When a baby is born, he is compared with his parents for his likeness to them. when he is growing up, he compares himself with others. When he doesn’t pay attention to his parent's advices, they compare him with his friends, his cousin and so on. This kind of comparison will have negative results.
Even if you don’t compare sb/sth, people surely will compare you!!!!!
Molana says that we should avoid of childish comparisons: " Don’t measure the action of holy man by(the analogy of) yourself, though shér(lion) and shir(milk) are similar in writing."

As a result we shouldn't deceive ourselves with using incorrect Comparisons for being closed to the God.

Posted by: SepideH Gheytasi

kaare paakaan ra ghiaas az khod magir!Eventualy noway for mey to see the power-makin part for us to grow!:( so numb,so dumb,no feelin to make me talk about it at all!:(()

طوطي و بقال

at first when you read it,you don't feel that it's for long time ago.i think one of it's reasons is that MOLANA is playing with the past tense(sometimes simple past,sometimes past progressive & ....).He uses beautiful structures like-he was seated-to show a very important and strong position.the ing mood is another reason to make it alive and everlasting.Another point is that when you don't talk for someday and suddenly start talking you screech ( means shout with an unclear voice) and both Molana and Nicolson have paid attention to these points and it shows their master.Everyone's analogy is measuring the action of others.Before starting the analysis we know what Molana is going to say.How have we got this point?Isn't it a kind of معرفت that we all have.How do we have this kind of marefat and from where?According to Nicolson's wordsمعرفوت به سكوت نزديكتر است تا به سخن.In the second part when Molana compares different kinds of species he uses simple present and it means it's a fact and a nonstop event .Have you ever asked yourself why it is like this?I mean the same action but different resctions.Like quite different children from the same parents? WHY?I think one of the important roles is our inside sound.But where does this inside sound come from?But another question arises that what makes a person holy and the other an evil? I call some words like hypocrite,energetic words?do you know why?because as here is said when you call someone such words that guy becomes filled with fire and that means it transforms negative energy and vice_versa .But how some persons like Molana can be neutral in front of these energetic words?Can you remember our pre_university book(two guys shouting and contending,Molana told one of them:هرچه ميخواهي به من بگو كه اگر هزار گويي يكي نشنوي .What has happend to a man like Molana who can act like this and cab be calm toward these kinds of tastes of HELL?IS HISS INSIDE SOUND DIFFERENT?BUTT AGAIN HE IS ONE OF US..

The story is all about the conflicts of life. I saw lots of oppositions in the words.

And a lot more…
The world he talks about is the world of good and bad! It is balk & white. Thought, I believe in sentences above; my world is gray. There is no completely bad or good person. Human kind( common ones not ma'soomin)make mistakes, go wrong way as well as doing good jobs and going in Serat_al_mostaghim.

Molavi mentioned a stereotype and gave us, the readers; some moral advices.

The stereotype is "khajevash". The portrait he painted is that a merchant is at ease so in this story the master sat as a merchant dose…comfortable and when his bird went speechless he wouldn't have sit this way. A merchant is not always at ease; he shows us this idea in the rest of the story in order not to be wrapped by stereotypes.

Smile and the world smiles with you; This is our world. Make people happy then the consequence is happiness for you too.

We've talked about it…Remember! Words…
Words are molds that we put our thoughts in as Molavi puts "the letters are the vessel"
It's the meaning that counts.

Do not measure…
Is it possible? All around us is measurement: "How old are you?" "How much is this or that?" "What are your grades?" "What was your average grade last semester?"…and a lot lot more!
As the little prince said grow-ups are stocked in measurements they keep measuring and never stopping. I try not to be a grow-up. I keep telling myself from time to time "Hey! Stop it!" and I was somehow successful! Though it's very difficult…the stone which stays in the river bed; tries to stop in front of water is shaped beautifully rather than the one on the bank!
Shir and Shir are written the same but a vast difference between them in meaning. What holy man and I do might be probably the same in appearance but he becomes holy and I don't!
We are not thoroughly aware of it. The meaning counts! If all of the people were aware of such facts they all would have know about Abdal or they, all might be one of them But Abdal are special ones so they are rare!

It reminds me of Quran (soorehaaye Foselat; aayeye 6_Ebrahim;10_Anbiyaa;3_Forghaan;7). The most interesting part is that though we're in bondage to sleep and food, one of us becomes the prophet and the other one not!

The story of the greengrocer and the parrot is a sort of "is"y story…It give us facts though in those facts there is a sense of "becoming". Molavi says this is good and that is bad. This is white and that one is black. You can be a good one or a bad one. White one or the black one! So goods and bads are the "is"y parts and 'you can be…' is the "becoming" parts.

If I get rid of bads I'll be at ease. Ejecting the rubbish is for the sake of my ease and God doesn't need my struggle upon it. Clean your soul from all dirt and …

"Where am I in this story?" I asked.
Huh! Here I am…I am a living man (girl :D ) with a rubbish in mouth! I'm trying to cough it out but it is still there. I'm sure I'll be successful in ejecting it! Otherwise I'll have a soar throat.

Golha javabe zaminand be salame aftab
na zemestani bash ke belarzani,
na tabestani ke besuzani,
bahari bash ta beroyani

The Wooden Bowl

A frail old man went to live with his son, daughter-in-law, and a four-year old grandson. The old man's hands trembled, his eyesight was blurred, and his step faltered. The family ate together nightly at the dinner table. But the elderly grandfather's shaky hands and failing sight made eating rather difficult. Peas rolled off his spoon onto the floor. When he grasped the glass often milk spilled on the tablecloth. The son and daughter-in-law became irritated with the mess. "We must do something about grandfather," said the son. I've had enough of his spilled milk, noisy eating, and food on the floor. So the husband and wife set a small table in the corner. There, grandfather ate alone while the rest of the family enjoyed dinner at the dinner table. Since grandfather had broken a dish or two, his food was served in a wooden bowl. Sometimes when the family glanced in grandfather's direction, he had a tear in his eye as he ate alone. Still, the only words the couple had for him were sharp admonitions when he dropped a fork or spilled food. The four-year-old watched it all in silence.
One evening before supper, the father noticed his son playing with wood scraps on the floor. He asked the child sweetly, "What are you making?" Just as sweetly, the boy responded, "Oh, I am making a little bowl for you and mama to eat your food from when I grow up." The four-year-old smiled and went back to work. The words so struck the parents that they were speechless. Then tears started to stream down their cheeks. Though no word was spoken, both knew what must be done. That evening the husband took grandfather's hand and gently led him back to the family table.

؟?

What's "living"?
Through last year I was wondering what life is!—still wondering!
What does it mean when it is said "live a life"?
I found life in RESPECT
In HELPING whomever in need -- even myself
In LOVING
Now I can see these are parts of it not its whole! (Very complicated! I doubt about the previous sentence! I can not see it. I feel it somehow!)
Sometimes I feel down & out.
I think; in those times, I'm not living. This is a sort of dieing!
Still confused…
Living or dieing... That's NOT the question!
The question is ...Why to live? ... Why to die?

Happiness / Sadness ?

LIFE is like the PIANO

Where white keys represent Happiness and black keys represent Sadness

but

You must know that black keys also make Music !

Posted by: Sepideh

The pencil story

The Pencil Maker took the pencil aside, just before putting him into the box. "There are 5 things you need to know," he told the pencil, "Before I send you out into the world. Always remember them and never forget, and you will become the best pencil you can be.""One: You will be able to do many great things, but only if you allow yourself to be held in Someone's hand.""Two: You will experience a painful sharpening from time to time, but you'll need it to become a better pencil.""Three: You will be able to correct any mistakes you might make.""Four: The most important part of you will always be what's inside.""And Five: On every surface you are used on, you must leave your mark. No matter what the condition, you must continue to write."The pencil understood and promised to remember, and went into the box with purpose in its heart.Now replacing the place of the pencil with you. Always remember them and never forget, and you will become the best person you can be. One: You will be able to do many great things, but only if you allow yourself to be held in God's hand. And allow other human beings to access you for the many gifts you possess.Two: You will experience a painful sharpening from time to time, by going through various problems in life, but you'll need it to become a stronger person. Three: You will be able to correct any mistakes you might make. Four: The most important part of you will always be what's on the inside.And Five: On every surface you walk through, you must leave your mark. No matter what the situation, you must continue to do your duties.Allow this parable on the pencil to encourage you to know that you are a special person and only you can fulfill the purpose to which you were born to accomplish.Never allow yourself to get discouraged and think that your life is insignificant and cannot make a change.

تجدید در ناخودآگاه

صبحدم و شامگاهان،به صداقت کم وقوع آدمی که جز وهله ای به موقع از گذر کرخت این معما زاده از این شاهراه نیست! و جزئیات این واقعه را کدام مورخ به رقت پاک محلول در کاغذ به سلول در می کشد!هرگزم توان هضم این ساده مسئله نیست که گویا چگونگی اش به سودا نشسته است!بشارت یک تلفیق رنگ کوچک در ذهن- که گویا همان تصویر خطور شده در خواب است -همچنان ناکامت می گذارد از یادآوری چشمه شکلگیریش!ومن به سرفرازی انسان که این تصاویر را باور دارم،و در رکود تجدیدشان در این تشکل گوشت و پوست فرودین به نظاره شان ایستاده ام! تا کماکان وقوع فی الواقع واقعه را به حساب معجزه بگذارم!